[ACTUALLY JUST A PRANK] AHH!! PEOPLE HACKED THE SERVER WHEN I LEFT AND CAME BACK!!!

...

I dont know, i'd say i've given a lot to this clan. And may I remind you, you are a founder, but we are of equal rank. I do not enjoy these condescending talks you give. I show you respect, and you return it. I will not have you fool my apprentice, then reprimand me like i'm a child.

I see where your views are now.

Equal Rank? Check again my friend. I mean not to fight, or to even disagree, your a brother of mine, let us drop them matter.

Promotions are quite irregular in this clan....

Re-promotion*

Leonardo, if you have a problem/idea feel free to suggest something under the proper topic.

Yup. I know. <--Made forum.

Alright, I'm getting sick of this.

Ezio, Leo, please stop acting like this. You're both being rather immature.

Ezio, just because you're a leader now doesn't mean you can lord your rank over everybody else. I (and I'm reasonably sure that Altair shares this viewpoint) believe that even people who aren't leaders can still have a very valuable contribution to this clan, or - as an extension - to any sort of group of people as a whole. As a wise uncle once said, with great power comes great responsibility. So act responsible.

Leo, you have contributed to the clan in invaluable ways. AoF would not be the clan it is today without you. That doesn't mean that you deserve special treatment. It doesn't mean that you can decide how you're treated. Whether intentionally or not, you have been sowing and showing discontent and arguments in the clan, and I see it as a threat to the order of the clan that you helped shape. That isn't to say that I don't like it when people argue (I love debates, as I'm sure you all know), but that I don't like it when it causes grief to the status of the clan.

That goes for both of you. A great man who, no matter what you believe, is likely considered at least a great moral teacher said:

Jesus of Nazareth wrote:If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.

Spoiler:

Matthew 18:15-17 NKJV

It is taught by numerous divisions of Christianity that legal and public disputes reflect negatively upon the whole group of Christians as a whole. That doesn't only apply to Christianity - when two high-ranking members of the clan argue like this, the results can only be bad for the clan. You two should settle this dispute privately, as brother among brother, not leader among elder.

And here is where my lawyer skills pick up:

I do not expect special treatment, I hate being talked down to like a child. I have the right to defend my dignity and honor whenever it is challenged, I DO get do decide how I am treated, since those are natural rights. There is a mistake if you dont believe that. Also, time for some confession. I dont not "sow discontent". I am horrified at frankly how things are being run around here. You have taken charge Dudeman, and whether you think so or not, you have held most of the power here since the old HACKS days. Your influence on the council and the clan is enormous. I dont know if you know that or not, but to put it bluntly, you have more power than Alta at this point. So far you have:

1. Organized demotions/promotions
2. Leadership filling issues
3. Unauthorized forum "editing"
4. Clan member cutbacks?????

Let me touch on these subjects briefly. First, My late demotion, as well as Ezio's. Dont tell me Altair decided those all on his own. Secondly, this point system I have heard about.(Leadership filling) You promote clanmembers on character and integrity, not on a point system that you randomly add points to! We need a solid system. The big bugaboo: the forum. Gee, it would have been nice if you asked me, the owner, before you decided to rearrange anything. But then again, you outrank me so you obviously dont give a sh*t right? Right. Lack of respect is a horrid thing to adhere to. And lastly: Clanmember cutbacks. What kind of goddamn communist BS is that???!!! Once a brother, always a brother!! We have, what, 8 active members all the time? We arent that big! And guess what? Maybe when other members come back and see they have been kicked off, THEY WONT REAPPLY. Why dont you just shoot us in the head right now? Saves time.

Maybe this "discontent" I am creating wouldn't exist if we actually ran this like a real clan. We are disorganized, sometimes divided, and obviously angry at certain things. We have Mc-f*cking-Monkey at our disposal, who freakin created this dynamite Mod, and honestly, we owe the guy more respect. Its pretty freakin awkward to come back to your former clan and then join them, THEN HOST THEIR SERVER. As I look back on the fall of Hacks, and the situation now, I see that he was right all along. The funny thing is, I think Mc agrees with me. Shocker.

Well if you read this far, congrats its almost over. Finally, Dudeman, if you want this conflict to go away and have us settle it privately, you must understand, this is bigger than just me and Ez. Its the whole clan in this.

P.S. I read this and It looks like I am mad lol. I'm not, just trying to get some points across.

Agreed leo

Although i agree or maybe not ....but....how the **** (Please do not swear) did you write all that down?

As much as i back multiple of Leonardo's notions, mere words have no impact upon a whole. If we intend to change, than that needs to happen. Cutbacks are because of current ACTIVE members, being immature, disrespecting brothers, and just making what anger we have already, bitter rage and hate towards each other. I have had many out-breaks when i was mad, said things i didn't mean, and caused great damage. My repairing of this, can't just happen, it takes time, like all else. AoF has major -Clan- problems....Seeing as i wouldn't consider us as such currently, constant fights, admin use, and just pure moments of rage, have torn apart what AoF originally was...I see now, AoF has become more of a clan-community, then the assassin order i had hopped for in the beginning, but that means not all hope is lost...there are still chances...but nothing a single person can do without followers...meaning those followers who wish not to listen, may have to be dropped, please, try to understand Leo, We like the idea of once a brother, always a brother, but that doesn't seem possible in this current state.

You made some wonderful points reflecting upon AoF and our current doings, I agree with you on many of them.

Not much more i can say.

Well, I'll just take this piece by piece.

Leonardo wrote:And here is where my lawyer skills pick up:

I do not expect special treatment, I hate being talked down to like a child. I have the right to defend my dignity and honor whenever it is challenged, I DO get do decide how I am treated, since those are natural rights. There is a mistake if you dont believe that.

Looking back on that now, you're right. You do have natural rights, and I apologize for implying that you don't.

Leonardo wrote:
I am horrified at frankly how things are being run around here. You have taken charge Dudeman, and whether you think so or not, you have held most of the power here since the old HACKS days. Your influence on the council and the clan is enormous. I dont know if you know that or not, but to put it bluntly, you have more power than Alta at this point.

I don't know if I really hold more power than Alta, but that just might be playing into your point of my ignorance as to my power in the clan. Maybe it's just that I seem to do more that makes you think I have more power than him.

Leonardo wrote:
So far you have:

1. Organized demotions/promotions
...
First, My late demotion, as well as Ezio's. Dont tell me Altair decided those all on his own.

As a matter of fact, your demotion was decided upon by Altair and Ezio. I voted against it, as far as I recall, and then tried to limit your demotion, though I eventually gave in to Ezio. Altair and mcmonkey pressed for Ezio's demotion, and had been doing so for about two weeks before I finally agreed. I wasn't for the demotions, and I wasn't the one who suggested the cutbacks, but I stand by those decisions because they're what the council decided.

Leonardo wrote:
2. Leadership filling issues

Secondly, this point system I have heard about.(Leadership filling) You promote clanmembers on character and integrity, not on a point system that you randomly add points to! We need a solid system.

Leo, you seem to be contradicting yourself multiple times here. Maybe you really are a lawyer. I have no idea what the heck you're talking about when you talk about a "point system". We do promote members based on their character and integrity. But you ask for a solid system, without giving any substance as to what your "solid system" should be.

Leonardo wrote:
3. Unauthorized forum "editing"

The big bugaboo: the forum. Gee, it would have been nice if you asked me, the owner, before you decided to rearrange anything. But then again, you outrank me so you obviously dont give a sh*t right? Right. Lack of respect is a horrid thing to adhere to.

Leo, I asked Altair and Ezio what they think about the forums before I started reorganizing. At the time when we decided they need re-organization, you would pop in about once a week or less and say "hey" then leave. I have repeatedly asked you if you have any input on what should happen to the forums, and your response is to pout and complain that I'm changing the forums when you created them. You don't own the forums, Leo. Well, maybe you technically do, but in the context of AoF you're not the final word on their changing. They were created, I hope, for the betterment of the clan. That's what I'm trying to do as a leader - make the clan better.

Leonardo wrote:
4. Clan member cutbacks?????
And lastly: Clanmember cutbacks. What kind of goddamn communist BS is that???!!! Once a brother, always a brother!! We have, what, 8 active members all the time? We arent that big! And guess what? Maybe when other members come back and see they have been kicked off, THEY WONT REAPPLY. Why dont you just shoot us in the head right now? Saves time.

The cutbacks (incidentally suggested by Altair) were put into place because, as Ezio said, we have problems with the maturity and activity levels of our members. We want to make this clan a strong clan, with a strong foundation. We're trying to figure out how best to do that.

Leonardo wrote:
Maybe this "discontent" I am creating wouldn't exist if we actually ran this like a real clan.

Well if you read this far, congrats its almost over. Finally, Dudeman, if you want this conflict to go away and have us settle it privately, you must understand, this is bigger than just me and Ez. Its the whole clan in this.

It's odd how you complain often and loudly about how the clan isn't run well, and how we should be doing things differently, and offer no solutions or advice to this apparent leadership problem. You just say that things should be different leave it at that. Maybe if you shared your ideas for the way things should be, we might actually implement a few of them.

Leonardo wrote:
We are disorganized, sometimes divided, and obviously angry at certain things.

Well yeah we're disorganized at times. This isn't the military, although I'm starting to think that some of you want to turn it into that. We get disorganized and divided at times, Leo. Nobody's perfect, so how can you expect a clan full of somebodies to be? I'm trying to help fix the disorganization, and instead of being endlessly criticized I would love some help in the matter.

Leonardo wrote:
We have Mc-f*cking-Monkey at our disposal, who freakin created this dynamite Mod, and honestly, we owe the guy more respect. Its pretty freakin awkward to come back to your former clan and then join them, THEN HOST THEIR SERVER. As I look back on the fall of Hacks, and the situation now, I see that he was right all along. The funny thing is, I think Mc agrees with me. Shocker.

Leo, I believe you have a few things mixed up here. Just to remind you of the timeline, mcmonkey disbanded [HACKS], then left JK2. He came back, and we (Alta) started paying him to host the server. A few months or so later, he applied to join the clan. AoF isn't "his former clan" - it's part of what [HACKS] was. You may believe that mcmonkey was right, and that's an opinion. One that I don't share, but it'd be useless to argue that.


As a final point:

Leo, you spend a lot of time criticizing the way that this clan is led. I'm not single-handedly leading the clan, here. Altair and now Ezio are both co-leaders, holding the same authority within the clan that I do. If you want things to change, maybe you should stop complaining about how badly things are run and start giving us some ideas on how to run it better.

I also want to thank you for challenging the way this clan is run, hoping you're challenging it for the right reasons. Hopefully, it'll lead to the betterment of the clan in the future.

I don't know if I really hold more power than Alta, but that just might be playing into your point of my ignorance as to my power in the clan. Maybe it's just that I seem to do more that makes you think I have more power than him.

Surely you speak in jest!

Every time someone goes to Altair for a decision, you yell at them and demand they accept your will as law. This has happened many times. You don't officially have more power - but you definitely try your hardest to make it unofficially that way.

Leo, you seem to be contradicting yourself multiple times here. Maybe you really are a lawyer. I have no idea what the heck you're talking about when you talk about a "point system". We do promote members based on their character and integrity. But you ask for a solid system, without giving any substance as to what your "solid system" should be.

During Ezio's promotions, you constantly brought up your silly Dudeman-loves-you-based-on-a-random-number point system. (Last I checked, on that scale, I am 2, and Altair is 92590152109521x0e2112)

It's odd how you complain often and loudly about how the clan isn't run well, and how we should be doing things differently, and offer no solutions or advice to this apparent leadership problem. You just say that things should be different leave it at that. Maybe if you shared your ideas for the way things should be, we might actually implement a few of them.

I believe he said something about 'respect your members' or similar. Which you're entirely incapable of doing.
Also https://assassinbrotherhood.forumotion.com/t203-must-read-clan-member-cutbacks#1515 should .. never happen.
You can treat both the above as 'ideas for the way things should be'.

mcmonkey wrote:

I don't know if I really hold more power than Alta, but that just might be playing into your point of my ignorance as to my power in the clan. Maybe it's just that I seem to do more that makes you think I have more power than him.

Surely you speak in jest!

Every time someone goes to Altair for a decision, you yell at them and demand they accept your will as law. This has happened many times. You don't officially have more power - but you definitely try your hardest to make it unofficially that way.

I don't want to have more power than Altair and Ezio, monkey, and I'm saddened that you think that.

mcmonkey wrote:

Leo, you seem to be contradicting yourself multiple times here. Maybe you really are a lawyer. I have no idea what the heck you're talking about when you talk about a "point system". We do promote members based on their character and integrity. But you ask for a solid system, without giving any substance as to what your "solid system" should be.

During Ezio's promotions, you constantly brought up your silly Dudeman-loves-you-based-on-a-random-number point system. (Last I checked, on that scale, I am 2, and Altair is 92590152109521x0e2112)

-.-'
I sincerely hope you're joking here. That 'point system' is, certainly, silly, and entirely a joke.

mcmonkey wrote:

It's odd how you complain often and loudly about how the clan isn't run well, and how we should be doing things differently, and offer no solutions or advice to this apparent leadership problem. You just say that things should be different leave it at that. Maybe if you shared your ideas for the way things should be, we might actually implement a few of them.

I believe he said something about 'respect your members' or similar. Which you're entirely incapable of doing.

I suppose that depends on what actions you're expecting when you invoke respect.

Oh Dudeman I already have plans for a solid system, but unfortunately, I dont feel like sharing those ideas. Probably because I make attempts to contribute, and then get told "Don't worry about it". What is it that you want accomplished? You want me to share ideas? Give me a job, then i'll start talking. I know how to run a system, I did it in EoC for a year.

Leo, that's like saying:
Hire me, company, then see why I'm qualified for my position! Do you think politicians win their campaigns by saying "You want to know what I'll do for the country/state/town in my term? It's a secret! You'll just have to wait and see!"
Yeah, no.

Play it like that if you want. Oh and I'm not campaigning, I'm not running for anything, and this is not a job interview. You asked, and I'm not going to tell you, simply because I can just see you using my ideas, then still not telling me to do anything.

Along with that, I still don't have the right admin commands, my tag changes often, and I don't even know what rank I am. Fack it, I'm gonna say the ideas anyway, just because I hate seeing you guys getting mad at me for trying to be productive.

Ranks:
Apprentice: >
Scout: >>
Assassin Brother: >>>
Assassin Master: >|<
Assassin Leader: >*<

Promotions:
Promotions can be suggested by members of higher rank than the nominee. Council holds a 2 day poll, to approve or decline the nomination. The nominee must have 2/3 vote of council to have promotion approved. Promotions are based on how well the nominee performs, like winning a contest, tourney, or notable actions. Don't be trying to promote your buddies. Not a popularity contest.

Applications:
A 3 day poll is held for new recruits. Recruits are evaluated by Assassin Leaders on character, skills and behavior. Recruits must have a minimum of 5 yes votes to be accepted as an Apprentice.

I highly suggest that we employ one or more of these ideas.

I'd also like to point out that Mc's above post is correct. Also, Dudeman, Alta has confirmed the use of a point system. He mentioned it to me casually a while back, I thought it was a joke. He probably did it by mistake.

I like them all. Not that my vote matters.
Except one thing:

Promotions are based on how well the nominee performs, like winning a contest, tourney, or notable actions.

Win contest -> get power
Yeahno.
Gain trust of admins, demonstrate ability to use powers well -> get power
Yes.

Actually leo these arnt bad at all I think

Mc I think that those fall under "notable actions" but your way seems to be simpler, therefore better. Fine with me, as long as there is some kind of voting in place.